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I love it when conservative sourpuss losers base their arguments on fictional movies. That's freakin' hilarious!
J. Murtha
Oh and what makes you think I'm a "conservative sourpuss?" Give me one example, and explain why it makes me such.
Uh...you apparently seem to think we "won" the Vietnam War...or at the very least didn't "lose" it. Sorry to burst your hyper-nationalist/xenophobic/americansarethechosenones bubble, but we lost the Vietnam War. You either have to be incredibly myopic and entirely ignorant of history...or you claim history is a "lie", which makes you a big 'ol sourpuss. Which one is it?
We lost the war because of the failures of men in power--both democrat and republican--philisophically, strategically and militarily.
Unfortunately, we are losing in Iraq (unless you believe Ann "the war is going swimmingly" Coulter) because of the same kinds of failures. But this time, the failures rest squarely (though not exclusively) on the shoulders of Republicans.
But god forbid you should ever have to admit that your country has been wrong and done wrong...unless it's Clinton or the "liberal" media.
And I rescind my comment above. We did NOT lose the Vietnam war - the peace-at-any-price idiots and liberal media lost it for us, but our military men and women won the war over there.
Don't believe we did? Read the statements of the VC leaders who realized our media was winning the war for them, so they just cooled their heels until the Administration caved in to public pressure to withdraw. Then they slaughtered millions of innocent people. Kinda like what would happen in Iraq right now if we were to cut-n-run like you want us to.
Can't you retire already? You're getting almost as senile as Ayatollah Jimmie Carter.
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
That's rich, man. You're the wingnuttiest!
And please don't act like you care about the various yellow and brown people whom you'd like to see converted to American democracy and christian fundamentalism at the end of a gun. Spare me.
Hanoi Jane can waffle, explain, tap dance all she wants..THAT PICTURE IS UNEQUIVABLE EVIDENCE that she was there providing direct and willing aid and comfort to the enemy.
VETERAN that has come to HATE ingorant liberal knuckleheads.
It was only by the assurance/encouragent of the anti-war leaders (Fonda, Southerland, Chronkite, and the like)that the US people would tire of the war and demand their troops be called home that he eleted to stay in the fight.
He said his losses was almost unimaginable and in the area of 65,000 VC troops dead alone. He also said the number claimed by the US military of communist troops killed by US troops was almost the "exact" number of his soldiers who didn't come home ....
I have a little insight to the war as having served over 500 days in combat in two tours. I was wounded 5 times, and not the John Kerry type wounds either. Of the 500+ days I spent in combat only 11 of those days were spent in base camp, which happened to be "Xuan Loc" where the final battle of Vietnam was fought. I fought in the TET Offensive of 1968 and can say without reservation, When they finally stood up and fought us, we slaughtered the bastards en mass.
Cowards will always find a way to justify their lack of character and loyalty. Its usually to vilify those greater than themselves. Skillful excuses will never cover a yellow streak.
The only thing worse than the coward is the "liberal"...
He has neither the calm courage of the warrior, nor the obsession to survive at any cost of the coward... he is just a traitor.
TOM
I doubt you ever wore the uniform of our country in combat. Fact if you were old enough to serve then, the boy next door did your fighting for you or was it you father?
HOWEVER, Since America under Nixon signed a peace treaty in 1972 that said America wouldn't intervene anymore; whilst Nixon also said they would continue to help South Vietnam - 3 years later North Vietnamese tanks were rolling down Highway One after claiming the presidential palace in Saigon, SV.
If one is to say that America won the war because we killed more communist NVs than they killed of us, one might also be condemned to say that the Nazis won World War II with a crushing victory. And I think if you were to say that I might be justified to call you a "fucking retard".
your seriously confused on several points, obviously underinformed and your conclusions are flawed. You have posted to a dormant thread, actually originally written by a "boots in the mud" expert. Your wild assertion that HoChi Mihn would have won a landslide election is really rather amazing, given that most of the RVN troops and people enthusiastically resisted the communist aggression of the North. And to somehow feel you need to close your wacky post with obscenity serves to illustrate how ill conceived your arguments and opinions truly are. Please stay on topic, and behave in civil manner, you are a guest on the blog.
Max (actual), Out.
The stated objective was to prevent North Vietnam from taking over South Vietnam. While grossly over simplifying the matter, it's what the stated objective was and was ultimately not achieved in any sense of the word. There is one Vietnam, it is Communist.
The real argument here should be, why did we lose and why are we losing in Iraq? It's not the fault of our soldiers. It's the dumbass politicians that we keep voting for, Republican and Democrat. Vietnam was fought under Republican and Democratic administrations. If you think Fred Thompson is going to have the cure by carpet bombing Baghdad, wrong but if Barak Obama is going to have the political ability to pull every troop out of nook and cranny from Al Anbar to Mosul, you're wrong too.
The answer here people isn't about blaming each other. It's about blaming the salesmen we were suckered into voting for. We should not have voted for them but we didn't know better. All we can do now is learn from the past.
To you soldiers: You didn't lose the war. Every politician who put you there did. But ask yourself, was it worth your brothers life to be there?
As to whether we won or lost, the case is we unambiguously won. The major war objective was not to block communism from coming to Vietnam. It was already there in mass, just as our military intelligence guys knew. The major objective was to punish Vietnam's independence movement and make an example of them, so that other country's would think twice before crossing that line again. We were 100% successful in the mission of making Vietnam hell on earth.
Ho Chi Minh was Vietnam's George Washington but, due to capitalist greed, he could not be allowed to set a "bad" example for others in the third world who also wanted control over their own lives.
And it all came down to control
Clinton didn't go to war in Vietnam because his mentor was Carroll Quigley. Vietnam was like Churchill's Galipoli a campaign of absolutely no significance other than to make the world beg for a League of Nations or in Vietnam's case the strengthening of the UN.
Kerry didn't pull a Fonda, but you wouldn't be able to admit that because you're too busy painting broad strokes. As for Fonda, she's a floozy like Cheryl "One Square" Crow and Carmen Diaz. Putting her in jail is like putting Libby in jail. Peanuts while the coconuts get away scott free.
(Bush was AWOL 19 documents - the dog - show this, Dan Rather was the wag - incidentally Monica was the wag, the war in Kosovo with the help of Bush-Clinton partner Osama was the dog)
That would be the fact. The rest of it? That would be the bullshit.
Here's the thing, right? In the United States, ever since the beginning, we've had freedom of speech, assembly, and the press, because they knew how easy it is for dissidents to be marginalized and ruined for disagreeing with what "everybody knows." For example, "everybody knows" that if it weren't for John Kerry and Jane Fonda, the American people would have supported what we were doing in Vietnam, we'd have been able to use whatever tactics we pleased, and that would be it.
But "everybody" apparently doesn't know crap about the war in Vietnam.
"Hanoi Jane" didn't even visit Vietnam until we were about to withdraw. That was nine years AFTER Thich Quang Duc burned himself to death to protest Diem, our chosen ruler of South Vietnam. It was three years AFTER the My Lai Massacre was finally investigated and publicly revealed. It was five years AFTER the Phoenix Program (easily our stupidest move in our stupidest war) started. It was a year AFTER the Vietnam Veterans Against the War held the Winter Soldier Investigation. It was four years AFTER Mayor Daley told police to shoot to kill in Chicago, and Abbie Hoffman and Huey Newton were put on trial for opposing him and Johnson.
It was the year that Phan Thị Kim Phúc's village, Trang Bang, was famously photographed being napalmed by our forces, under the assumption that terrorizing the Vietnamese would turn them away from the Viet Cong. That alone would have killed the war if it weren't already dead - from a failure from the top down to understand asymmetrical warfare and respond to it without attempts to overwhelm it with force.
You can call for death to all liberals all you like, you ignorant bastards, but that doesn't make you good people.